Leonard Lake & Charles Ng
In the early 1980’s Lake and Ng somehow found each other and this would prove deadly for many. They lived in a bunker on a peice of remote wooded property in northern California. There they would live out their fantasies of raping, torturing and killing. Not only would the committ these horrible deeds but they would tape this as well.
Their crimes came to an end in June of 1985 when a hardware store employee saw Ng hiding a stolen bench vise in the trunk if Lake’s car. By the time police arrived Ng had fled but a check of Lake’s car proved that it belonged to someone. Lake was taken to the station for questioning. Sensing his time was up, on the way to the station Lake swallowed to cyanide pills. He would go into a coma and die 4 days later.
A search of his property turned up blood soaked bed sheets, restraints and bloody power tools. They would also find the videos that showed the 2 men with various captives. Diaries filled with horrible details were found on the property as well.
The bodies of 7 men, 3 women and 3 babies were found as well as 45 pounds of human bones suggesting atleast 25 people had met their death there.
Ng had fled to Canada where he was arrested for the shooting of a guard during a robbery. After years of legal bullcrap Ng was finally sent back to the United States. His trial wouldn’t start until 13 years after his capture. After a trial lasting 8 months, he was found guilty of the murder of 6 men, 3 women and 2 babies. He was sentenced to death.
that is so disgusting. that is a lot of people. how lucky that the other guy had cynide on him. maybe i should start carrying some around, just in case.
just in case what?
I know right? What’s that about?
I’ve seen this story on TV a couple of times now and it continues to disgust me as a human being. I live in the USA and I’m equally as disgusted at the way Cananda reacted when we first tried to extradite him. What on earth is wrong with those people??!!
Debbie,
Different Country, different laws. It’s that simple. Canada simply does not have the death penalty and was not going to release one of their detainees to death.
I would note though hat the canucks decided it was wise to return him to us when they realized that he would be released into their population when he finished his sentence in Canada.
Exactly!!
.
Canada, like many nations around the world, will not release a prisoner to the U.S when the death penalty is involved because they do not believe in capital punishment. But, you will find that it is usually the heinous nature of a crime that will allow a nation to overlook that standard. Such was the case with Ramon Salcido who was captured in Mexico after a killing spree in California, he also now sits on death row.
these killers deserve to die for what they did. they r sick
these people r sick. they deserve to die
The US authorities eventually called the canadians bluff, stating in essence that after Ng’s canadian prison sentence was served they could keep him! Wisely, they agreed to extradite him. I suppose Hong Kong would have refused entry had Canada tried to deport him to his home country.
Wow, this still rips me apart. I own a ranch about two miles above the old “Lake” property. The day this all came about will live with me for the rest of my life. I was on my ranch in 1985 hunting deer when I stumbled onto three garbage bags just across from my property line. When I poked into them I discovered all sorts of wierd things, miss-matched high heels, bra’s, panties, blouses, flash bulbs, etc. None of this made much sense. I had really forgotten about the bags untill some friends had started asking about the “Lake-Ng” stuff. When I started talking about it, I told them about the bags I had stumbled across and then it hit me like a train. I woke up the next morning and called the Sheriff. This was in 2001. The Sheriff came out within an hour and took most of the debris into his posession. So now when I drive up to my ranch, I slow down when I pass the “Lake” property and I say A little prayer for all those people who unwillingly passed thru his red and black iron gate. I really hope I am alive when Charles Ng unwillingly passes into the “green room” at San Quintin. One thing that really bothers me to this day. How many victims are buried up on the mountains around our property. When I find any thing that looks like a bone, the hair stands up on the back of my neck like you wouldn’t believe. In my opinion, this case is still not finished. We have only unearthed part of the crimes Lake & ng committed.
Cliff, i hear u buddy. in 1985 i had the misfortune of coming across NG as he was fleeing to Canada just hours after I saw the manhunt posted all over national tv. What were the chances? I was caught in the headlights so to speak. He knew I knew who he was and neither of us moved for what seemed a lifetime waiting for the other to make the first move. Had I been older and not a young kid, i would have been able to move and call out for help. When i finally did move to get help, NG had disappeared. To this day i live in morbid disgust. chase is my alias…i still remember the feeling i got when he looked at me, its a feeling i can never wash off.
I knew Leonard Lake. I drank coffee with him at my apartment on a few occasions & I am one of the VERY lucky ones to still be here today! There were some of us on his list who managed to escape it. Although I guess it was never confirmed, he killed my friend Maurice. You are soooo right Cliff, I too believe there are many more people who came to their nightmarish demise on that ranch that no one knows about. I hope that someday they will reveal all of those victims so the families who still live with loved ones considered ‘missing’ will have an answer. It wasn’t until Charles Ng was convicted that I could watch anything about psycho killers without having anxiety attacks & nightmares for days afterward. I can’t even imagine how people closer to the situation dealt with it all those years! Leonard Lake was a wimp & a coward!
Sick cowards, want to reach into the videos and help the innocents
I think the crimes committed by these two sadistic people were especially heinous as they had no regard for human life going as far as murdering babies of the women they tortured. Its too bad that Lake killed himself because it would have given me great pleasure to see him put to death just as Ng will be. They will no doubt burn in hell forever.
hey lol
wuddup, wudddup?
lmao maclean!!!
sarah farted… its sooo gross!!
I was a Marine doing independent duty with NIS at MCAS Kaneohe when Ng was involved in the theft of weapons at the armory. I did a screening interview of him sitting at a field desk in the company area. If I had known then what I know now, I could have shot him & saved all those lives (but my butt would have gone to Leavenworth).
hey luke its not a random chat its serious stuff
u must be the same sick freak if u think this stuff is funny
if u want to be stupid then go on myspace and do it not here.
that stupid sick freak charles ng i hope he dies slowly and
very painfully.and i live 5m away from were he did this stupid crap.hes lucky that the fuzz found him before we did cause he wouldnt have the time to waite on death row.(u think of what u would do to that freak)!
i knew both Lake and Ng and found them very strange, my girlfriend an myself had a foursome with them in a motel. they were really freaky, always wanting to insert large objects in my girlfriends vagina.Taking photos and bondage was pleasing to them> I my self was blindfolded as well as my gf and forced to play their sick games . I find myself lucky to be alive after reading this in the media.
thats some crazy shit dude…were they faggots?
that story was so off, the facts were all wrong, they met because they were both marines, and so much more was left out. don’t tell a story if you aren’t going to tell it right.
I am beast of sin slay your babies and your kin.I rape your fate
I hate everything and destroy all that i see because my father
told me of the things that people do .Pa PA says bring blood
for the feast and anihilate infants.He also taught me how to bleed
and cry and beg for hope.mercy is now dead and i am a slay shell
#
to scott aye right ya lying bastard.While we are on the subject
ted bundys my dad aileen wournos my mum and i myself am father
to both jeffery dahmer and vlad the impaler
as a french man, i can say it must be hard to live in America. We surely have our “serialkillers”, but they’re still hidden…
Life IS meaningless. We are born predator’s and it is few who acually act upon that impulse. Now i do admit that this particular crime is tragic and vile. I do not condone this in any way. But instead of us hiding in the shadow’s relieving our impulses on innocent blood,why not take our aggression’s out on say,rapist’s,phedophiles,crime leader’s,drug dealers? the world would be a better place. call it what you will,vigilante justice,pshycotic,whatever. I call it cleansing.
I am a TV producer looking for anyone who knew Leonard Lake or Charles Ng. I read comments from Cliff and Tommy above. This is for a 2008 documentary on the saga of the Ng case.
What about Cricket? Why isn’t she in jail? Where is she now? Is she still teaching elementary school?
I am a sister of one of the victims (Cliff Peranteau). After all these years I still find myself doing ridiculous searches like this to find out more about the depraved mind of Charles Ng & Leonard Lake…. What’s clear is that I’ll never understand it and the only thing everyone can truly agree on is that they were both sick and Charles Ng should be finally killed instead of using up tax dollars to fight to stay alive in jail. I’ll save this site in case anyone with any real information, a local who may have known my brother personally while he lived out there in CA, wants to write to me. Thanks.
I am reading the book Die For Me, about Lake and Ng. Early on it is obvious that Leonard hates his brother Donald for a variety of reasons. Then, all of a sudden, he visits his family and that “hate” seems to have miraculously disappeared. And he takes his brother off to some other town to work, and Donald is never seen again. What strikes me, is that in this same chapter, it talks about Lake’s continuing relationship with the rest of his family, and NONE of them ever ask him whatever happened to his brother. This was a man with a disability, who lived with their mother until Leonard took him away. Wasn’t ANYONE the least bit concerned about him??? I know that this was one of the murders that Leonard was eventually charged with, but Donald’s body was never found. Didn’t his mother or sisters even want to know?? Couldn’t Leonard have been stopped years before if someone in his family had just asked about his brother?!?!?
Lori many times its the family that helps to conceal a crime either by not wanting to talk about it or just ignoring it hoping its not true. Then again, maybe lakes family were afraid to ask, fearing they would arouse his suspitions and they would be next. Lake had to appear off for a long time, the family must have just concealed it.
I am not a big fan of the death penalty, as in a government killing it’s own citizens, but some men deserve a good killing, and Ng appears to be one of them.
a “good killing” a good term to use.
I thought Nithari was a bad situation, this is worse.
i, as one of the above posters, am also reading “die for me”. i have for some time now had a proclivity for serial murders, sexual sadists, and the like. any of you seeking more on these two depraved men should read it. it is by far one of the most thorough books in my “questionable reading” library.
as far as those of you who think lake was a coward for taking cyanide…didn’t he do us a favor?…he certainly suffered more than he would have on death row – or by our (in my opinion) far to ginger method of execution. lethal injection?!?…i say bring “old sparly” back. these monsters deserve to suffer just as their victims did.
Anyone know the current status of Ng appeals?
yes still appealing, i am searching for his latest appeal online, i was told i could read it somewhere. he calls his trial a travesty and misuse of justice…..what a laugh right. Imagine..he wants justice! the guy is a lunatic.
What i mean is, when does he get to die?
I lived on 19th Ave in SF during the early 80’s in the house where Ng had an apartment in the garage. Was asked a couple of times to go up to the “Ranch” and pick marijuana and thankfully declined each time. I know at least one time when a couple of people did not come back, because the police, friends, and a guy’s girlfriend kept coming around around asking questions about the last time I has seen her boyfriend, Lake and Ng.
All this played out over a couple of weeks, to a month if I remember correctly. The guy who owned the home on 19th Ave, sold the place and bought another place and asked if I wanted to rent a room in the new place. ( I must say however, that I had no idea who Leonard Lake was, because to me he was Alan Dray, an alias he used ) Later, like weeks, I came home to the new house to find out, that that our roommates were dead, Alan Dray was Leonard Lake, and took his life after he was caught by the police, and it was advised that we should return to our house on Hearst until they capture Ng.
I stayed with a girlfriend, and upon hearing Ng was apprehended in canada after shooting a department store clerk, I moved back in.
Very weird stuff, the reality of it did not hit me until years later when I started telling the story to friends.
I was in the unit with Ng. and I believe Lake was in weapons Co.
He was in Bravo co. 1/3 , 1st marine brigade, 3rd platoon.
Why aren’t the prison guards throwing some inmates free commissary to do this guy slow and painfully. It’s happened before, like to Jeffrey Dahmer. Even the “Son of Sam” got his throat cut, (but lived). This guy played the system, now he should be in constant fear, like his victims. I’ve lost my respect for prison guards, at least until he’s executed by the inmates.
My father was Cricket’s attorney and according to my mother is the reason she was never punished. I was too young to know about this case at the time, but as an adult I have inquired about this to my mother (my father is no longer alive to tell about it). Apparently Cricket wanted to do interviews and go on TV, but my father convinced her it was a bad idea. He also got her immunity so that she could be deposed and tell all she knew. Basically she had alot of knowledge/involvement, but never had to pay the price. The thing he stressed to her was that the statute of limitations never expired, so perhaps she didn’t have full immunity? When is Charles Ng scheduled to be executed?
I knew R. Scott Stapley, Lonnie Bond, Brenda Conner and Lonnie Jr. and I met Leonard Lake (who I knew as Charles Gunnar) and Charles Ng a few times. I stayed at the cabin (where Scott, Lonnie, Brenda and the baby all died) a month or so before it happened, for about week.
Lake and Ng drove Scott’s truck down to the apartment Scott and I shared in North Park, San Diego after they killed Scott, Lonnie, Brenda and the baby. They told me this wild story about how they had found Scott, Lonnie and Brenda in the cabin all dead (all shot) no sign of the baby and how they had cleaned up all the blood, burned the bodies “Indian Style” and forged a letter from Lonnie to his landlord saying he was moving out and didn’t want his deposit back. All because they had a little marijuana growing business next door and didn’t want the cops snooping around. I went along with this even though I knew it didn’t make any since (you don’t involve yourself in multiple homicides for a pot growing operation. You get rid of the plants!!!)
They wanted me to bring my daughter (she was 2yrs old at the time) and come back up north with them then. They even took me out to the ally behind my apartments to look at Scott’s truck. I am so lucky they didn’t throw my in the truck and take me then. I think they didn’t because I told them that my daughter was in daycare and I had to pick her up soon or the daycare would start calling every number they had on file to find me. I convinced them that I would bring my daughter up north to the cabin the next day to pick up the car I had given to Lonnie (a Plymouth Fury). Luckily they believed me and left taking a lot of Scott’s personal belongings with them. They wanted me to tell everyone that Scott had moved but I didn’t know where to.
I moved out of the apartment that night and only went back to get my things when I had someone with me. Leonard Lake left several messages on my answering machine in the next few days but I had changed the message to say I had moved and I would call all my friends as soon as I had a new number.
A few days later Lake was arrested, took cyanide and died shortly after.
I will never be the same. My life is forever changed. I don’t trust anymore.
I want to know when Ng is supposed to be executed….I will celebrate that day!!!
P.S. I LOVED SCOTT WITH ALL MY HEART!!! I will forever miss him. He was my other half.
wuhh?
I watched the Leonard Lake and Charles Nq story on the Crime and Investigation channel last night and I must say that I was horrified and totally disgusted by the animal-like behaviour of these so-called men. I feel so soory for the victims and their families. What a humiliating way to die! Burn in hell!!!!
fucking scum killing babies, cant get any lower than that u sick fucks..where do u get cyanide from?
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Executing Ng isn’t going to bring any of those people they killed back. Whats done is done. I don’t agree with the people saying he should be executed, we aren’t barbarians, we are civilized people. Killing Ng doesn’t make us any better than him. Instead they should put a tattoo on his ass that says “insert here” and throw him in with the other prisoners and let them gang rape his ass before he is slowly beat ALMOST to death. Then put him back in his cell while he is still alive and do the same thing the next night and the next for the rest of his life. 2 wrongs don’t make a right but 2 negative actions makes it makes it even. hehe
good 1 jeff. i say why stop at the ass, tattoo his head (bullseye) and set him free, $1 says he doesn’t make it passed the east gate of san quentin
Yeah, he SHOULD be executed, the miserable piece of shit. In fact, what’s almost as appalling as the fact that he and his buddy tortured so many people is the fact that we have spent so much time amd money prosecuting this worthless bastard. He doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt and never did. Somewhere along the line when all of this legal stuff started turning into a big joke, someone should have simply pulled out a gun and shot the son of a bitch at point blank range in the head. Shame on us for wasting the resources on him that we have, in the name of “justice”. I say a little vigilante justice is needed in certain cases, and this waste of humanity fits the bill.
Jeff, keep in mind, California does not have Life without parole. I am on the fence regarding the death penalty in most cases, but not this one. I was 15 years old when this all came to the forefront. I lived in the Bay Area and this was very scary. Charles Ng is pure evil. Among the murders he was convicted were the murders of two little innocent baby boys. How much more evil can you get. The baby boys couldn’t protect themselves or fight back; how could they? In this case, the death penalty is appropriate. This man should never be allowed an opportunity to reenter the general population. If he didn’t receive the death penalty, reentering society would have been a possibility. Aside from this, Californians should not have to pay to house, feed, and cloth a man that didn’t allow others to be housed, fed, and clothed. You are right, 2 wrongs do not make a right; however, in this case, Ng is the only one who did anything wrong. When he dies, the state will have protected its citzens, that’s a right.
Both men deserve to die. I’m so sorry for all those who have been affected by the actions of these two men, both the victims families and countless others.
In response to Lori in April 2008: Donald’s body WAS found according to http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/ng/remains_4.html
As far as the family question: Donald was disabled but not to the extent the book leads one to believe. He was injured by a train as a teen and was on pain killers all his remaining life. He was actually able to slip into military service for a short period of time, so he was able enough to pass the physical tests to enter.
Also remember that his family was seperated when he was younger so he had the ability to live with different relatives for different periods of time as an adult. One month with one grandparent, another with a his now married sister, etc. It was not uncommon for him not to call for long periods of time. Before he disappeared, he had spent a month with his paternal grandparents. Then his brother, Leonard, arrived and stayed around for a while helping his grandparents out around the house with repairs before the brothers left together.
None of the articles I have read state how long Donald went with no contact with his family. If could have been a matter of hours, days, weeks or months before the arrest of his brother. That could explain why the family did not report him missing…because he wasn’t missing to them. Perhaps he called or had written sporadically during this time period. He wasn’t living in the communication age where you had a cell phone in your pocket with the ability to email and get immediate responses. His family was not wealthy and long distance phone calls were expensive. Just a thought for you.
There are times when even us Canadians believe in capital punishment. As far as Debbie’s comment above, no country is going to push us around. Even the US has laws that restrict deporting of people to their country if they are to face death. It’s very rare that Canada does that at all, but I am sure glad they did it this time.
I served in the United Staes Marine Corps with Charles Ng in the late 1970’s. We both taught Martial Arts and Combat Fighting Techniques to soldiers and soldier’s relatives alike. He was an excellent Marine and was tougher than most.
I can’t imagine he actually did what the jurors convicted him of, guess we won’t ever know.
I was living in Calgary when Charles Ng was arrested. Although myself and my roommates didn’t know it at the time, Ng was squatting in a somewhat wooded area/abandoned property about 500 feet from our back door. Many times we had looked out the window to see someone there. We thought nothing of it, as he wasn’t the first to use the area for habitation. Just goes to show you that you can often overlook what’s right under your nose.
?
My Dad Knew Kathleen Allen, I hope he is burnin
kathleen Allen’s picture is haunting on the cover of die for me. a true face of utter hopelessness and sadness. God bless Kathleen and her family.
My Dad Knew Kathleen Allen, I hope he is burning in hell
This is Cliff again who owns some mountain property above the Lake property. I truly believe that the old Lake property is Haunted or something. I know of 8 different owners since the property was first sold. I get the most uneasy feeling when I pass the old black & red iron gate. I have alot of guests up at my place and I sometimes tell the story when we are around the campfire. I have been asked to stop the story because it is for real. I planted some trees around my place in memory of the ones who lost their lives at the hands of those sick perverts. I only hope the people who haven’t been accounted for are somehow remembered in some sort of a memorial in their honor. It is a real shame that Ng still is alive on Earth & we are footing the bill… I would love to be the one who flips his switch…or depresses his needle… It would be an honor !!!!!
working on it cliff.
I knew and served with Charles Ng at Kaneohe Bay Marine Corps Air Station in Hawaii and if anyone out there also served with Ng, then you know me, Sgt. “Snake” Selby. We taught Martial Arts together on Base. Any GRUNTS out there remember me? Give me a holler.
This is to Jim Brace. You said you were doing Independent Duty with NIS when you “screened” Charles Ng. concerning the weapons theft.
Nobody (BUT) NIS would have conducted the “screening” and even if you had, you would not have been wearing a firearm while sitting in front of him so therefor, you would not have and could not have had the opportunity to have shot him, so please, spare us the macho B.S.
Hi Cliff, cant believe you live right next to the ranch! I thought I was the only person who is convinced that there HAS to be more bodies buried around the site…the whole area should of been dug up at the time and I cannot believe they have not torn the atual house down. Have you heard of the Fred West case in England? That house was torn down at the end of the police investigation as a mark of respect to the victims, why would anybody want to live in Lakes old house I wonder? So much death and misery has taken place there the only thing I can think of is some sort of ghoulish fascination, I know I would give the place a wide berth! Does anybody live in it now? Did the police ever get back to you about the bags of shoes and underwear etc? Sorry I am bombarding you with questions here but there are just so many! Hope you can reply, thanks!
i thought the house and bunker were torn down???? of course the property has bad karma associated with it…how could it not.
Cricket scares me just as much as the men. I saw her videos. She’s a freak and she’s still out there, free to do whatever her warped mind tells her to. She should have gone down big time.
Yes, it has always bothered me why Cricket got away without so much as a slap on the wrist. She had to have known something was going on up at that ranch, the horrible little torture bunker should of surely set off alarm bells ringing for a start. Maybe she didnt participate in the murders but she must of known something was up. What do other people think? I have always wondered why Lake was living in the ranch that belonged to her dad when they were divorced? Why would he have allowed Lake to live there and treat it as his own? So many questions! Crickets obnoxious attitude with the police when they questioned her was an insult to the murdered if you ask me, all she cared about was getting her silly little home made porn tapes back. I wonder what she is doing now and how her life has changed as a result of this case?
what did leonard lake do for a living? how could he afford all that crap?
he was a thief for one.
after leaving the marines he basically did nothing except steal from the people he murdered, all of the expensive video equipment (vcr and video camera which were at that time in the early 80’s mega expensive) were stolen from the Dubs family. He lived on his victims pay checks, sold their vehicles and apparantly had yard sales in which he would sell the victims property (jewellery etc) to members of the community, nice eh. Charles Ng had a job so I imagine he used that money too. He also sold on some of the victims cars.
thanks i can use this for my report
what was the timeline of his victims?
Thankyou i am glad to be of some help, i hate to admit i am horribly fascinated by this case and have read 2 books about this awful duo now. What is your report for out of interest? I will give you as much info as I can, the 2 books I read were ‘Die for me’ and ‘Justice Denied’, really good books both of them with Justice Denied going right up to 1999 when Ng got the death sentence. The ‘Miranda’ ladies Kathleen & Brenda were murdered in April & June 1985 (Brendas common-law-husband, friend Robin & baby boy were murdered at the same time as her, just a few weeks before the murders were uncovered). The 3 members of the Dubs family were murdered in summer 1984 and most of the guys were murdered 1984 up to the point of Ngs arrest & Lakes suicide. There are a few others aswell that they were not charged with that happened 1982-1984 (men who Ng worked with and helpers Lake drafted in to build his bunker). Lake also murdered his best friend Charles Gunnar approx 1984 and his brother Donald approx 1982-ish. Apologies if I am out a bit with the dates but those books I suggested will definately help you more accurately. Just let me know if I can help again.
I was one of the jurors on the Charles Ng murder trial, and I relive scenes of these crimes often. Somethings trigger a memory such as every time I see a similer honda or hear a name like the murdered innocent ones. We sentenced him to death on my birthday and again I relive it every year. My torture will not end.
nor mine Denise. I hate that I was just a kid when I came across NG on his way to Canada, I could have saved the state so much money.
I hope they execute him soon Denise. Do you think that would help knowing when he is goin g to die?
no I don’t think that knowing that, will help.. that won’t kill those memories.
thanks i have to do this for my crime in america class and this is a really big help. i dont think he should die a quick death. for all he has done to people they should drag it out.
damn right it should be as painful as possible although that wont happen it will be quick and humane unlike the way he tortured his victims in particular kathy, brenda and the 2 babies…he should be hung drawn and quartered and an ancient english method
i think thats a great idea an there are two states the still hang people and use a firing squad also
he should be executed slow death ..how can such criminal even think of living.. he should be tortured and killed
As a journalist/author, I spent 14 months covering the Charles Ng trial, writing a feature for Orange Coast Magazine, and stringing occasionally for the San Francisco Chronicle. During that time I shot hundreds of photos in the courtroom, as well as reviewing and photographing much of the evidence.
Though I wrote an extensive and well illustrated proposal including numerous photos and many of Ngs cartoons, the book–which was more forensically oriented instead of being conventional “true-crime” was never published, and only Don Lasseter’s book on the case and trial saw print.
Denise, the juror who has commented above, may remember me, (bow tie) and Dr, Callahan, the shaggy-headed forensic psychologist who covered the trial with me. We all went out to dinner after the trial.
Like Denise, despite having been a war correspondent and having seen a lot of troubling events, I am still deeply disturbed by this trial and remain so today.
Denise, I’d very much like to speak with you and discuss your reactions since Ng’s conviction. You’ll be interested to know that I ran into Mr. Kelly, the lead defense attorney, playing golf a few years ago.
For Cliff Parenteau’s sister, I have just written to a friend who serves on the Court of Appeals to see if I can trace Ng’s appeal process–although the appeals process usually only relates to procedures during the trial.
I have also been fascinated by this case and google facts about it regarding a paper I’m doing on Serial Killer pairs. I had a question for anyone that could answer. I’ve read the two books and no where in them did it mention the babies being killed in front of they’re mothers, it also left out info about victims being burned alive and tortured in other ways, yet when I looked on Wikipedia I saw this info regarding the case. I just want to know if these things truly happened or is the info on the case in Wiki false information. Thanks.
Michelle:
Re: your questioning about Wikipedia’s accuracy.
Trying to recall hearing any testimony or seeing evidence that they killed babies in front of their mothers. Can’t recall anything about the victims being burned alive, and I’m almost certain they were all dead when they were burned, though there was a great deal of attendant physical, sexual, and emotional abuse to the victims while they were imprisoned in the bunker. I’d have to go back over my notes — and I have at least 15 notebooks — to see if there’s anything I’ve just dissociated from.
Dr. Callahan and I purchased a complete 40k page transcript of the trial and I suspect he may still retain it. This would provide you with the necessary details, but it’s a long read.
I wrote a lengthy proposal for my literary agent, and a prospective publisher. I still have a hard copy which includes many of the selected evidentiary photos I took as well as some of Ng’s prison cartoons.
Also, Dr. Callahan and I both went up to the property, walked the ground, and spent time in the little town nearby.
This is the current status of the case:
the following transaction has occurred in:
PEOPLE v. NG (CHARLES CHITAT)
Case: S080276, Supreme Court of California
Date (YYYY-MM-DD): 2009-04-28
Event Description: Record on appeal filed
Notes:
clerk’s transcript 134 volumes (42,406 pp) and repoter’s transcript 68 volumes (19,230 pp), ASCII disks; including material under seal. Clerk’s transcript includes 4,774 pp. of juror questionnaires.
This is to Jim Brace and to Sgt Selby. I was an NIS (now NCIS) agent working at Kaneohe Marine base between 1979 and 1981 and I worked with Jim Brace. Jim was an active duty Marine and assigned with us as a credentialed agent. I too sat in a room alone with Charlie NG while I was armed. If Sgt Selby would like the names of several other agents assigned there at the time I could provide those. NG was charged with the theft of some hand grenades, but acquitted. In late June or Early July 1981, a female was shot in the head at the base car rental office. NG was later linked to this murder which may have been his first. NG was later convicted at a courts martial for the weapons theft that is mentioned. To Jim Brace, you can hook up with me on Facebook if you would like.
For all you who have been breathlessly holding your breath, here’s “Chinaman Charlie’s” (his prison handle) latest appeals transaction in:
PEOPLE v. NG (CHARLES CHITAT)
Case: S080276, Supreme Court of California
Date (YYYY-MM-DD): 2009-05-13
Event Description: Extension of time granted
Notes:
Good cause appearing, and based upon counsel Eric S. Multhaup’s representation that he anticipates filing the appellant’s opening brief by May 15, 2009, counsel’s request for an extension of time in which to file that brief is granted to May 15, 2009. After that date, no further extension is contemplated. ”
– As you can see, the glacial nature of the appeal’s process is, well, glacial.
– For all you former Jarheads, here’s a little Crotch trivia regarding the Ng saga. The presiding judge in the 14-month long trial, Jack Ryan ( I know, sounds like a Tom Clancy novel) was a fromer Marine sergeant. Hoo Ah.
Craig Lockwood, Lifetime Member: USMC Combat Correspondent’s Association
It is a travesty that Cricket wasnt prosecuted.
I dont beleive for a second Lake would have been parading Brenda Oconner and and the other victims back and forth between his house and the bunker in handcuffs and taking pictures of Brenda on his deck nude in broad daylight if he thought Cricket dropping in at any moment would be a problem.
Shes on video talking with Lake about his’Miranda’ project!
I wouldnt be surprised if she didnt have go at the female victims herself.
She scooped up videos and evidence from the property before the authorities got there and destroyed them.She admited as much to the police.
She didnt testify to anything of substance at the trial anyway.
She sould be strapped next to Ng on agurney for a hot shot herself.
agreed!
I say let’s all sign a patition as americans and let’s see if we can have this piece of shit tortured ill do it myself me and my homies. Rip to those who sufferd
I just saw a programme about these two on CI in Australia, 1st learning of them, and I must say even after being caught in ‘86, spending time in jail in Canada and finally convicted in ‘98, this turd is still alive!!! What is wrong with you people? Whilst we don’t have the luxury of the death penalty in OZ, you people do. Why does it take so long to flush a turd over there?? The trial cost, depending on what website you look at, between 10 and 14 million US dollars. How much extra has it cost you lot to keep this piece of shit alive for the last 11 years??????????
last official count was over $20 million dollars. He doesn’t die yet because of all the pro lifers against the death penalty. there may have been things wrong with his trial like say a mistrial due to technicalities, however, the state knows they can never let this beast out. Therefore he lives. maybe it will help all to know he is not happy nor comfortable. He lives in fear of his own death.
I just watched this on tv. i hve done extensive research on serial killers but have never heard of this one for some reason, fits the profile perfectly, they are all different , but all the same, its the Devil,,,no sane person could do this to people,no matter how much i see of this it still shocks me…
Amber. How does this happen in the “GREATEST” country in the world??? Don’t get me wrong, we have our weirdo’s here in Oz, but for him to still be alive astounds me!
I too just watched this on CI channel and couldn’t believe it until I saw the videos of those poor women, not realising what fate lay ahead of them. My heart goes out to all of those poor vitims. I agree, the ranch should be pulled down like Fred West’s house here was. No one should live in that place again, it should be a memorial.
I just learned about this case and cannot believe that our criminal justice system, with all that it thinks it does, did not intervene after the disappearance of Donald. How did Lake get away w/ that one? Talk about cool under pressure, I’d have been a mess!
Craig and Jude, it seems rather odd that the time span between discharge and the beginning of the end for so many innocent people could be lost. I have not read either of the books that you refer to however I may. In between Lake lived in an area commonly known as Greenfeild Ranch in rural Mendocino County. This would be before he met up with Charles Ng. The peice of property he occupied there had a hairpin turn off of the main road (which were all dirt and single lane) that required at very least a three point turn around and a bit of speed to get up once you were pointed at it. It was deemed Radical Ridge by the locals. If I recall correctly when this whole case exploded on the news the Mendocino County Sheriffs Department along with the lead investigators of other agencies took their turn at investigating this remote peice of property. I can not tell you what they found but I can tell you that apparently there were no bodies. Allegedly there were some pics left behind but the area was preety much cleaned out. During the time in between Lake allegedly worked for what was known as NCO or North Coast Opportunities as a contractor. He allegedly installed installation and weather stripping and such in low income households in the area. Topographically I cannot tell you if the Green Feild Ranch area would also carry to Philo but the access I speak of was through Redwood Valley. As for “Crickett” I recall the name and think I can recall a face but am uncertain, I think they met in the Green Feild Ranch area. Even at that point in the late mid to later 70’s Lake was a bit paranoid. I attributed it to the fact that he was growing marajuana on his patch of ground. I cannot defend the legacy he has left behind and the monster he became but I like so many others am curious as to the “why” of it all.
@ anyone:
I read the book “Die For Me”. What is the talk about a piece of a child’s liver being found……that did NOT belong to the Dubs nor the O’Conner child? I’ve never read that anywhere else; only in this book.
Also, have they been able to identify ANY of the other remains? At all? And besides Kathleen, Brenda and Deborah, are any of the other known victims on any of the tapes? I couldn’t walk that ground out there without wondering if I was walking on someone’s remains. Just truly awful.
all good questions, answeres are locked in Ng’s head.
Does anybody know if Deborah Dubbs was thought to be held in the bunker or was it only Kathy & Brenda? Thanks in advance.
I read that they video taped all the murders,has anyone ever seen or know where to find them online?
Why would you want to watch the murders???
I am glad we (U.S.) has law enforcement, prosecutors and judges who have the courage, determination and competence to pursue, apprehend and prosecute people like these and make our society a little safer. Some may say our justice system is flawed, but I say thank you for keeping us safe.
Kelvin, whilst I can appreciate and commend your patriotism, I must ask you to view my previous comment and reply. PS I understand it’s now over 20 MILLION DOLLARS??
I just saw a programme about these two on CI in Australia, 1st learning of them, and I must say even after being caught in ‘86, spending time in jail in Canada and finally convicted in ‘98, this turd is still alive!!! What is wrong with you people? Whilst we don’t have the luxury of the death penalty in OZ, you people do. Why does it take so long to flush a turd over there?? The trial cost, depending on what website you look at, between 10 and 14 million US dollars. How much extra has it cost you lot to keep this piece of shit alive for the last 11 years??????????
I apologize that I didn’t addrress your comment. Let’s just say that legal manuevering by defense lawyers, prisoners rights activists and other factors have served to delay many capital punishment sentances. Each state has different laws governing crime and punishment. California is a very liberal state which lobbies for a ban on capital punishment, especially in Northern California, where this all took place. I don’t really think I can give you a good straight answer, but the above factors are the prime reasons why he’s alive today.
Is it possible to write to this vermin while on Death row?
Maybe he could get a print out of what people think of him and the tattoo idea’s let him know just what he really is and deserves nothing!
The aryan brother hood should make him there bitch cut his clothes off and video it as a warning to all sick freaks
Also if any further human remains are found would cricket! (stupid name) have immunity for these new victims if of course new victims are ever found?
It is very sad she got away with her life for even knowing these vile people.
Also to the guy and gal who had the 4some hope you washed in Detol and used protection
I met Leonard and his girlfriend when I was a teenager in the late ’70s while working at the Southern California Renaissance Fair. I used to hang out with a group of fair friends called the “Mongers”. There were several teenage girls in the group and Lake’s girlfriend lured some of us over to see the couples “unicorn”, rather goat, once. Leonard talked to my friends for a while, but I was afraid of him. I was probably 15 at the time. I was very shy and didn’t say much, but my friends did and they thought he was creepy.
What they had done to the goat bothered all of us. It had a horn grafted onto its forehead.